PatchChat LIVE at Noon: Fairfax County Teacher Workload
At noon Friday, Patch readers can join a discussion with Fairfax County teachers' association leaders and school officials to discuss what some teachers have called an unsustainable work environment.
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Chat is live - to join, click "play" in the window above.
Some Fairfax County teachers say they've seen workloads increase for a few years now — but this is the first year it's becoming what they are calling "unsustainable."
And they say they want a solution sooner rather than later.
Join Patch at noon Friday to talk with the leaders of two of Fairfax County's teachers' associations, along with a school board member and an assistant superintendent about some of the issues surrounding teacher workload, including state and local testing, grading and evaluation systems and new curriculum initiatives.
Readers can make comments or ask questions and get live responses throughout the course of the chat.
To join: Bookmark this page and return at noon Friday, or sign up for an email reminder above.
At a meeting last month sponsored by Fairfax County Federation of Teachers, one of the associations that will be represented in Friday's chat, members asked school board members for help in reducing some of their requirements and responsibilities and the shrinking amount of time in which they have to do it.
Read: Fairfax County Teachers: "I Can't Sustain This"
In a letter to the school board in December, the Fairfax Education Association has said it's already offered four no- or low-cost solutions the county's school board have not acted on.
"A demoralized and burned out teaching force will not be able to help you realize your goals," President Michael Hairston wrote.
The workload issues surface at the same time the system is grappling with how to stay competitive with jurisdictions that, especially for teachers with more experience and education, are able to pay more.
The school board is hoping to give a 1 percent market rate adjustment in fiscal year 2014, which officials and teachers say isn't quite enough.
Some commenters on Patch have said given the county's budget woes, it couldn't afford to give more money to teachers, or expand the budget. Still, many readers have said — for a number of different reasons — money isn't the answer.
Guests on Friday's chat include:
- Steve Greenburg, president, Fairfax County Federation of Teachers
- Michael Hairston, president, Fairfax Education Association
- Pat Hynes, Fairfax County School Board Member (Hunter Mill District)
- Phyllis Pajardo, Assistant Superintendent, Human Resources
The chat will last one hour.
Previous Live Chats:
PatchChatLive: A Later School Start Time
PatchChat Live: School Board Reopens Honors Discussion
PatchChat Live: Video Surveillance In Fairfax County High Schools
PatchChat Live: How and Why Parents Are Driving The School Board Election
Don Joy
8:58 am on Wednesday, March 13, 2013
The following is copied/pasted directly from Fairfax County supervisor Pat Herrity's "The Herrity Report" which I received in email a week ago:
"Focusing School Resources Into the Classroom on Teachers and Kids: For the last several years, the growth in the budget has been largely driven by the growth in the transfer to schools both in total dollars and as a percentage of the budget. Our schools are among the best in the nation and we must invest to keep them there. However, instead of focusing the resources into the classrooms, the size and salaries of central administration and non-school based positions have grown excessively.
"Let Our Teachers Teach: The growth of administrative and non-school based positions have resulted in new additional 'programs' and administrative programs for teachers. Now we have a large number of teachers doing nothing but administration. If you take the total number of students in the school system and divide it by the number of full time equivalent teachers (excluding principals, guidance counselors, special education teachers and other non-teaching school based staff) you should get average class size. If you do the calculation you get a class size of 12. This is less than half of our average class size. What are all these teachers doing? Administration."
Herrity's report is chock full of even more good information on budget issues and other topics.
Michael
9:10 pm on Saturday, March 16, 2013
Herrity makes it sound like there are only 2 groups: classroom teachers and central administrators. Nothing could be further from the truth. These 'extra' teachers include library, art, music, P.E., technology, reading, math, and other specialists. Because they do not have their own class, they do not serve to reduce average class size. But they are genuine teachers, in schools, working with students all day long. These are not administrators, as Herrity preaches from his blissful ignorance.
I would hardly call that "good information."
Michael
9:13 pm on Saturday, March 16, 2013
And I would hardly call a guidance counselor or a special education teacher a "non-teaching" position. That is degrading at best... every special education teacher in this county works their tail off to support their students. But Herrity doesn't just imply that these don't count as teachers - he actually comes out and calls them "non-teaching staff"!!!!!
Anyone with family receiving special-education services should be appalled at this false distinction.
Don Joy
10:57 am on Sunday, March 17, 2013
Michael, you failed reading comprehension. See me after class for remedial tutoring.
Go back and read what Herrity wrote again, and try to comprehend.
Note that he wrote: "excluding principals, guidance counselors, special education teachers and other non-teaching school based staff."
Herrity isn't talking about those positions being the ones which should be converted from spurious and extraneous administrative programs into full-time teaching positions--obviously, many of them already are full-time teaching positions--he refers to "administrative programs for teachers" run by other would-be teachers, and other administrative programs.
His point is that class size would be reduced to 12 if teachers were teaching instead of featherbedding in all those union-scam makework jobs. Pay better attention, Michael.
Don Joy
11:06 am on Sunday, March 17, 2013
Just reinforces my anti-union, anti-communist position that you are a teacher and can't even read/comprehend what has been presented to you. The Marxist teachers' unions have destroyed our education system in America, and have brainwashed entire generations of students against basic competence, morality, and standards. No wonder 80% of NYC high school "graduates" cannot even demonstrate the minimum competency to do work at the community college level (!), with teachers who are commies who can't even read themselves!
Julie D
10:05 am on Wednesday, March 13, 2013
Has any consideration been given to the fact that most teachers are teaching at 11:45am? How can there be a productive discussion about teacher workload when teachers cannot participate and share their perspectives?
Erica R. Hendry
10:12 am on Wednesday, March 13, 2013
Hi Julie: Unfortunately this was a time that made it possible for our panelists to get on. In the past, we've had teachers who are on lunch breaks log in and we hope they are able to do that on Friday. The chat will last about an hour, from noon to 1.
As in the past, I am more than happy to accept teacher comments here or by email (erica.hendry@patch.com) and put them in the discussion on teachers' behalf. Teachers who are members of FEA or FCFT can also contact their leaders participating in the chat, who can also put forth comments from their members.
Hope that helps — please email with any questions
Best,
Erica
Michael
9:04 pm on Saturday, March 16, 2013
Teachers are technically not allowed to use school-system resources to participate in political discussion or activism of any kind. Many of our supervisors would frown on our participating in such a forum even during our supposedly duty-free lunch, because we would be using system resources to do so.
Don Joy
10:59 am on Sunday, March 17, 2013
Since when did laws and prohibitions ever stop public-employee unions from doing whatever the hell they want to do anyway? Public employee unions exist to for the purpose of raping the taxpayers.
Steven Greenburg
3:19 pm on Wednesday, March 13, 2013
I appreciate that Erica (and the Patch) are providing this opportunity, but I think Julie's question brings up a larger point, which is: 'While teachers are teaching kids, others are discussing what matters to and affects them... when do they get a say or have their views heard?'.
This is both a local and national problem that contributes to work load issues. Part of our teacher's frustration is in their loss of professional voice and discretion in the classroom. I'm glad that many could come out to the Town Hall meeting to speak to this (and participate), but even that was difficult for those with families to attend (on a school night).
I would encourage Julie - beyond Erica's kind offer to accept comments beforehand and put them in during the chat - to email the FCPS school board members, as they care about her perspective and will (ultimately) be the ones who make the decisions on changes needed.
I think (after the Chat) the comment section here is also a good way of providing some feedback on the items addressed on Friday.
Don Joy
9:09 am on Saturday, March 16, 2013
I strongly suggest paying attention to what Pat Herrity said.
Louise Epstein
9:25 pm on Sunday, March 17, 2013
Don Joy,
You might want to read some of the testimony by the presidents of the two teachers associations (FEA and FCFT). Both have testified that they would like fewer administrative burdens imposed on teachers by central staff, and I believe they would not be unhappy if FCPS cut central staff positions. If you would like to read their testimony, some of it is posted on the web site for the Fairfax Education Coalition, on the bottom right corner of the home page:
http://www.fairfaxeducationcoalition.org
Don Joy
8:32 am on Monday, March 18, 2013
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/11/11/Teachers-flock-to-Northwestern-University-Marxist-Conference-journalist-booted
"This Saturday, the Midwest Marxist Conference was held at Northwestern University’s Medill School of Journalism. The event was teeming with teachers who spoke about the new found bond between the radical socialists and their Teachers Union. The all-day event, which collected money to support Chicago Socialists and featured a communist bookstore, provided students on-campus along with the radical left community to plan the next phase in their activism."
Guy Linn
9:14 am on Monday, March 18, 2013
teachers union and non-union work their asses off for the betterment of their students each and every day and for you to imply otherwise is an affront.
I would bet you never have turned down a benefit gained by unions for the workers they represent. Like 5 day work weeks, livable wages, safety on the job.
Don Joy
9:22 am on Monday, March 18, 2013
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/03/07/officials-most-nyc-high-school-grads-need-remedial-help-before-entering-cuny-community-colleges/
Don Joy
9:27 am on Monday, March 18, 2013
http://blog.heritage.org/2009/07/09/nea-general-counsel-union-dues-not-education-are-our-top-priority/
General Counsel Bob Chanin explains to NEA convention why Big Labor is so powerful:
"Despite what some among us would like to believe it is not because of our creative ideas; it is not because of the merit of our positions; it is not because we care about children; and it is not because we have a vision of a great public school for every child.
"The NEA and its affiliates are effective advocates because we have power. And we have power because there are more than 3.2 million people who are willing to pay us hundreds of million of dollars in dues each year because they believe that we are the unions that can most effectively represent them; the union that can protect their rights and advance their interests as education employees.
"This is not to say that the concern of NEA and its affiliates with closing achievement gaps, reducing drop rate rates, improving teacher quality, and the like are unimportant or inappropriate. To the contrary these are the goals that guide the work we do. But they need not and must not be achieved at the expense of due process, employee rights, or collective bargaining.
"That is simply too high a price to pay."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-piPkgAUo0w
Don Joy
9:32 am on Monday, March 18, 2013
From the Heritage blog:
"Where to begin? First of all, there is little that is voluntary about the millions in dues paid to the NEA every year. The NEA is strongest in states without right to work laws, and if you want to teach in a public school that is under an NEA contract in those jurisdictions (like California and New York), you must pay dues to the NEA. It is the law. There is nothing voluntary about it. Second, that is tax payer money he’s talking about, which is exactly what is so corrupting about public sector unions: the government is lobbying itself for its own expansion.
"And what are “employee rights” and “due process,” you might ask? Well, those are what require New York City to pay 700 union teachers $65 million a year to do nothing. Same thing in Los Angeles, where 165 union teachers collect a total of $10 million a year from tax payers for doing nothing.
"If you have the time, do watch the whole 25 minute address. Chanin recounts the rise of public sector collective bargaining, with a rapid rise in teacher unionization in the late 60s. He talks about all the victories the NEA has won for teachers since then. But ask yourselves, as the NEA has exploded in membership, budget, and power, how have American students fared? What have unions done for their education? Absolutely nothing."
Virginia Fitz Shea
10:55 am on Saturday, March 16, 2013
A few elementary schools implemented Monday early dismissals in the early 1970’s. The school board did not actually vote to allow this or to allow more schools to switch to this schedule, as can be seen from these excerpts from the minutes of a meeting held February 25, 1971:
“Summary of Actions Taken
Length of School Day. It was the consensus of the Board that the Superintendent and staff could assist schools in moving to a modified schedule where desired (no motion by the Board)....
"Mr. Davis made some ... remarks to the report on the modified elementary school day, indicating that several elementary schools that have extended their day are closing one-half day early per week. He stated he had not realized before the extent to which this adds to the clerical and administrative burden of these staffs... Mr. Harold Ford, Area IV Superintendent, presented the details of the report regarding the elementary school day, indicating it was desirable from the standpoint of bringing about the program going on in the elementary schools...The present regular elementary school schedule contains 30 hours and 50 minutes per week, while the modified schedule calls for 31 hours per week. The modified schedule runes from 8:30 a.m., to 3:00 p.m., except one day per week from 8:30 a.m. to 1:30 p.m….”
Originally only 1 ½ hours were cut from the Monday schedule. Before the switch, the elementary school week was 30 hours and 50 minutes long--the same length it is today.
Sue G
3:06 pm on Sunday, March 17, 2013
This entire discussion is all about what is best....best for our kids and best for our teachers.
Well, it may actually be what's best for property value, because any discussion that leaves child development out of the discussion about workload increase isn't trying to solve the problem.
Assessment shouldn't be about producing data. It's about using what we know in order to make kids learn. I can't explain that more simply, you'll just have to read the body of work on assessment that I've read.
Our workload increased because lots of teachers like me use their planning time to accommodate administrative requirements, and have to spend a lot of extra time making sure their kids are learning actually learn something. Our elementary day shouldn't be about trying to cram facts and then evaluating how well they spill it back. Elementary kids learn in context. I'm not making it up, read the studies about cognition and development.
Evaluating teachers on a weak set of criteria is another waste of time.
If my professionalism were taken seriously, then what I said at the Town Hall meeting about development, the need to restore developmentally based curricula and authentic assessment wouldn't have been ignored or treated as irrelevant.
Kathy Keith
9:00 am on Monday, March 18, 2013
Please read the "letters to the editor" in WAPO today. There is a letter from a woman who transferred schools in third grade. She wasn't reading in one school and turned into a good reader in the other one. Why? I think what Sue says is right. The new teacher used her own quick assessment to determine the problem--not a standardized test. Then she applied her own solution (in this case -Phonics- to the problem. The teacher's assessment took a minute--a standardized test would take hours.